Sunday, May 28. 2006
Face-lifting amaroK
At K4M, we decided that amaroK's context view should get a more prominent place. After some discussion, a tabbed Playlist/Context/Wiki/Lyrics view seemed to be the way to go. So we just did a dirty hack to try it out:
This could somehow work, but Florian from Open Usability pointed a lot of problems, and we haven't been satisfied with the huge number of tabs either ("4 is just too many" is a recurring theme here). So we did a second try using a splitter:
This showed that actual code for experimenting is much better than just mock-ups. And it also showed us that we prefer this Kmail-like look - expect this to see in one of your next amaroK installs!
This could somehow work, but Florian from Open Usability pointed a lot of problems, and we haven't been satisfied with the huge number of tabs either ("4 is just too many" is a recurring theme here). So we did a second try using a splitter:
This showed that actual code for experimenting is much better than just mock-ups. And it also showed us that we prefer this Kmail-like look - expect this to see in one of your next amaroK installs!
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Hm, I don't know if that's an improvement. At least Music and Lyrics don't use much screen width, so it doesn't make much sense to give them more than a half of amaroK's width.
Contrary, the playlist needs as much width as possible. So placing the lyrics/music/artist above the playlist wastes too much space which could be uses in a better way.
If you really go this way, you could think about dropping the lyrics/music/artist tabs, and display them all side-by-side. This might be really cool.
Contrary, the playlist needs as much width as possible. So placing the lyrics/music/artist above the playlist wastes too much space which could be uses in a better way.
If you really go this way, you could think about dropping the lyrics/music/artist tabs, and display them all side-by-side. This might be really cool.
" think about dropping the lyrics/music/artist tabs, and display them all side-by-side"
urgh.
This would be ugly and cluttered - tabs are a good way to keep the currently displayed information tidy.
there's plenty of other info that could be displayed at the top of the context browser - what's there could be rearranged to use two columns instead of one long one, for starters.
The wiki tab benefits greatly from being wider - much easier to read.
urgh.
This would be ugly and cluttered - tabs are a good way to keep the currently displayed information tidy.
there's plenty of other info that could be displayed at the top of the context browser - what's there could be rearranged to use two columns instead of one long one, for starters.
The wiki tab benefits greatly from being wider - much easier to read.
Wiki pages do take up plenty of screen width, as much as you give them.
Lyrics don't need much width, this is true. Its still a WIP.
Basically we're taking advantage of the wasted space in most playlists, I generally don't have more then 15 in a playlist. And when I do, I don't really need to see more then 15.
Lyrics don't need much width, this is true. Its still a WIP.
Basically we're taking advantage of the wasted space in most playlists, I generally don't have more then 15 in a playlist. And when I do, I don't really need to see more then 15.
"Wiki pages do take up plenty of screen width, as much as you give them."
Sure, but I prefer smaller width (80 columns or so), because it's better to read.
"I generally don't have more then 15 in a playlist. And when I do, I don't really need to see more then 15."
Think you got me wrong. I meant the playlist needs much width, because you want to see artists, title, album, rating, moodbar, year, genre...
The height is not too important, I totally agree.
Sure, but I prefer smaller width (80 columns or so), because it's better to read.
"I generally don't have more then 15 in a playlist. And when I do, I don't really need to see more then 15."
Think you got me wrong. I meant the playlist needs much width, because you want to see artists, title, album, rating, moodbar, year, genre...
The height is not too important, I totally agree.
Currently I need my whole collection in the playlist as I listen to whole albums randomly.
I haven't found any way to create a smart/dynamic playlist to accomplish this.
I haven't found any way to create a smart/dynamic playlist to accomplish this.
I have to agree with Tassilo: I don't know if that is an improvement. I think the playlist and the live search are the most important things in amaroK. (Especially with long playlist, like on partys.)
If this kind of displaying is going to improved in amaroK, it would be lovely if there is an option to switch to the old view with the sidebar.
I also think about to put the context view on the right side of the amaroK window. So the context view is still viewable and you can turn it off if you want to (like on the left side)
If this kind of displaying is going to improved in amaroK, it would be lovely if there is an option to switch to the old view with the sidebar.
I also think about to put the context view on the right side of the amaroK window. So the context view is still viewable and you can turn it off if you want to (like on the left side)
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It's growing on me 
Specially after playing around with the window sizes.
I assume if this is going to be tried more widely, as part of a release, that the context browser will get a style overhaul to make use of the extra width?
I look forward to it very much!
Specially after playing around with the window sizes.
I assume if this is going to be tried more widely, as part of a release, that the context browser will get a style overhaul to make use of the extra width?
I look forward to it very much!
I liked the context browser on the left side, as you still see the full playlist on the right while you get some info on the left about the current song.
Furthermore, the contextbrowser just does not need so much width the playlist has by default.
At least, you can move the playlist over the context browses. Though, the left side is now rather boring (no nice cover pics illustrating the current song)
Furthermore, the contextbrowser just does not need so much width the playlist has by default.
At least, you can move the playlist over the context browses. Though, the left side is now rather boring (no nice cover pics illustrating the current song)
I'm following amarok and KDEMM development and meeting loosly. If I my add my 2 ct: I think the splitted version looks pretty good! One goal of the GUI redesign should be to get rid of as many tabs as possible (especially the vertical ones). Because I think the are bad usability wise. As a non power user, you never really know whats behind a tab or where someting is hiding what you're searching. At least I have had quite some trouble, especially with the vertical tabs, in the beginning of using amarok.
Actually I've been thinking about the amarok GUI from time to time and how to improve it. IMO a core problem with lots of usability consequences is that the design of amarok is playlist centric, while the typical usage patterns are more source (by that I mean collections, media devices, radio streams, saved playlists) centric. I think, resolving that would lead to eliminate several tabs, less buttons, less context menu entries, a more straight forward interface and thus increased usability.
If you would like to hear more of the usability problems I encountered and my thoughts, I'd be happy to discuss it.
Greets Michael
Actually I've been thinking about the amarok GUI from time to time and how to improve it. IMO a core problem with lots of usability consequences is that the design of amarok is playlist centric, while the typical usage patterns are more source (by that I mean collections, media devices, radio streams, saved playlists) centric. I think, resolving that would lead to eliminate several tabs, less buttons, less context menu entries, a more straight forward interface and thus increased usability.
If you would like to hear more of the usability problems I encountered and my thoughts, I'd be happy to discuss it.
Greets Michael
Those vertical tabs are wonderful! Five is just the sweet spot, but four or six tabs would not hurt, either.
If you think Amarok's interface is too complicated for you, try to get Brain 2.0 or just don't use those tabs you don't need.
If you think Amarok's interface is too complicated for you, try to get Brain 2.0 or just don't use those tabs you don't need.
Personally, I like the ability to see the context browser and collection at the same time. The main drawback at the moment is that there is two much width, but this can easily be fixed with some redesign of the css in the contextbrowser themes so there is a multi-column layout.
Yes, this woul help a lot. Can I get such a redesigned CSS somewhere?
I just tried the svn version and i have to say i don't like it.
The music and lyrics tabs are quite useless now since it ends in a real scrolling hell. Lyrics that once fitted since they took the complete length of the screen don't fit anymore and you have to scroll and scroll and scroll...
Same goes for the music tab which i used very frequently to add suggested songs and so on. It doesn't make fun anymore.
What's the usability benefit at all? Scrolling hell over tabs (hell) I think the tabs were a really good thing for amaroK and since they are still used anyway what good is it for?
Note: I have a 19inch monitor, don't want to know how this looks on a smaller display at all. Please revert to the old layout.
The music and lyrics tabs are quite useless now since it ends in a real scrolling hell. Lyrics that once fitted since they took the complete length of the screen don't fit anymore and you have to scroll and scroll and scroll...
Same goes for the music tab which i used very frequently to add suggested songs and so on. It doesn't make fun anymore.
What's the usability benefit at all? Scrolling hell over tabs (hell) I think the tabs were a really good thing for amaroK and since they are still used anyway what good is it for?
Note: I have a 19inch monitor, don't want to know how this looks on a smaller display at all. Please revert to the old layout.
My thoughts:
If the context pane is going to be like this, the Music and Lyrics tabs have to go multicolumn.
I'd like there to be an easier (and quicker) way to collapse the context pane than just dragging the divider until it snaps all the way up.
I'd like for there to be a way to edit the toolbar above the playlist as well as the one below. Could amaroK have rearrangeable toolbars like you see in konqueror and many other kde apps? (perhaps a button to collapse/hide the context pane could go here?)
Even if the upper toolbar isn't editable in any way, please make it respect KDE's icon size settings. I have tiny buttons in the main toolbar and comparatively huge "small" buttons in the upper toolbar. I do not like this.
I did briefly think of suggesting something like the toolboxes that you find in krita, kdevelop, etc, but I've been told that it could be a usability nightmare, so I won't suggest it. !;^)
All in all, I think this change could be good. It still needs a little bit of work and polishing (and certainly some getting used to), but I think it's probably worth a try.
If the context pane is going to be like this, the Music and Lyrics tabs have to go multicolumn.
I'd like there to be an easier (and quicker) way to collapse the context pane than just dragging the divider until it snaps all the way up.
I'd like for there to be a way to edit the toolbar above the playlist as well as the one below. Could amaroK have rearrangeable toolbars like you see in konqueror and many other kde apps? (perhaps a button to collapse/hide the context pane could go here?)
Even if the upper toolbar isn't editable in any way, please make it respect KDE's icon size settings. I have tiny buttons in the main toolbar and comparatively huge "small" buttons in the upper toolbar. I do not like this.
I did briefly think of suggesting something like the toolboxes that you find in krita, kdevelop, etc, but I've been told that it could be a usability nightmare, so I won't suggest it. !;^)
All in all, I think this change could be good. It still needs a little bit of work and polishing (and certainly some getting used to), but I think it's probably worth a try.
The toolbar buttons you talk about are sized to match the qlineedit. The toolbar minheight is set by the lineedit, so not much point going smaller than that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Please, please, if you all do this, make it optional.. :-/ I much prefer the context stuff kept over by itself, I would hate having to scroll through the playlist to see many songs, plus having to scroll all the time for lyrics or "Music" context.
to answer some questions:
yes, contextbrowser will get a restyling. it will be backwards compatible with old styles.
yes, there will be multiple columns in the contextbrowser.
this solution will provide some serious improvements:
contextbrowser can be visible all the time.
no more infinite scrolling in the contextbrowser.
we can now display way more interesting information in the contextbrowser, just because we finally have enough space to do it.
enough space for contextbrowser's tabs, finally.
less crowded browser-bar.
the css style suddenly gets more important. it will affect more than just 10% of amarok's view.
whatsoever, you can still use a "fullscreen" playlist.
but, you can also completely hide the playlist and use contextbrowser to completely control amarok and what's coming up next. just append / queue stuff and you keep going
give it a chance, we really think it's a change for the better and will turn out to be a huge usability improvement overall.
cheers,
muesli
yes, contextbrowser will get a restyling. it will be backwards compatible with old styles.
yes, there will be multiple columns in the contextbrowser.
this solution will provide some serious improvements:
contextbrowser can be visible all the time.
no more infinite scrolling in the contextbrowser.
we can now display way more interesting information in the contextbrowser, just because we finally have enough space to do it.
enough space for contextbrowser's tabs, finally.
less crowded browser-bar.
the css style suddenly gets more important. it will affect more than just 10% of amarok's view.
whatsoever, you can still use a "fullscreen" playlist.
but, you can also completely hide the playlist and use contextbrowser to completely control amarok and what's coming up next. just append / queue stuff and you keep going
give it a chance, we really think it's a change for the better and will turn out to be a huge usability improvement overall.
cheers,
muesli
There is one thing confusing me: two scrollable areas one below other (context browser and playlist) looks ugly and have very poor usability. Many people like long playlists, me too.
But I completely agree that context browser should be always visible.
But I completely agree that context browser should be always visible.
I have been using this new style all of today, at first it seemed terrible. Now its not as bad. I like to see the music info as well as the playlist but my playlist is huge (a little over a thousand songs). This at the top takes up some of the space that would otherwise be used for my playlist. I also don't like the way it looks right now but I am pretty sure once a skin gets made that uses the new layout better I will be much more happy.
I hope Amarok 2 turns out great and I appreciate all your work for making the BEST music player ever!
I hope Amarok 2 turns out great and I appreciate all your work for making the BEST music player ever!
So you're opposing tabbed playlists like crazy without any sound reasons but then you implement this? Oh well...
Nobody asked for such a feature while tabbed playlists are one of the top wishes...sry, but this all makes no sense to me.
Nobody asked for such a feature while tabbed playlists are one of the top wishes...sry, but this all makes no sense to me.
uhm no, sorry, noone here is opposing tabbed playlists. quite the contrary. we're basically just waiting for amarok2 (and qt4), when we're going to refactor some parts of the code, which will allow us to implement tabbed playlists nicely.
in general, all of us developers look forward to tabbed playlists just as much as anyone of you guys.
cheers,
muesli
in general, all of us developers look forward to tabbed playlists just as much as anyone of you guys.
cheers,
muesli
Well, I fell claustrofobic with the new layout. However, hiding "context browser" helps. I'll probably get used to it, and I'm fully aware of benefits whitch current layout brings. But here's one important thing: please consider adding a way to display "context browser" UNDER playlist. That would more reessamble kmail, and make more sense IMHO.
During my 21 hours worth of a train ride back from Holland, i was actually thinking exactly that as well - list view on top and context bellow would indeed make the KMail metaphor work better
Ok, I haven't read all comments. But I really dislike this.
The playlist is the most important thing in amaroK. At least for me. Making it so small just feels wrong. But I haven't tried it out yet, I'll do that before complaining more.
The playlist is the most important thing in amaroK. At least for me. Making it so small just feels wrong. But I haven't tried it out yet, I'll do that before complaining more.
I strongly agree.
Platylist is the most importent element and it should take as much place as it's possible. I wouldn't like to make playlist smaller just becouse i want to see a cover or wiki info. Layout from 1.3 series is very good and IMO amaroK 1.4 and 2.0 shoud look similar to 1.3
Platylist is the most importent element and it should take as much place as it's possible. I wouldn't like to make playlist smaller just becouse i want to see a cover or wiki info. Layout from 1.3 series is very good and IMO amaroK 1.4 and 2.0 shoud look similar to 1.3
same as me I think to rediscover your music you have to see a large amoutn of tracks so that you don't have to scroll for ages until finding what you were looking for. I would rather say make the writing smaller so that you can even see more tracks at once.
sorry for ma bad englisch spelling...
sorry for ma bad englisch spelling...
Really, though... the collection is the most important part of amarok. The playlist is only a queue of what's going to be played, and since amarok can only play one song at a time, AND you can set it to always show the current track, why give it more space?
Hopefully the new layout will encourage people to actually use amarok as more than just one large playlist - if that's all you want, why not use a media player that's designed that way?
Hopefully the new layout will encourage people to actually use amarok as more than just one large playlist - if that's all you want, why not use a media player that's designed that way?
can someone just make a redesigned css for context browser really quick? That way I can tell if I hate this way or not. One good thing about it is hiding the collection/playlists/files window gives more horizontal room for playlist.
I don't like this too 
Context browser is important in amaroK but the central widget should be the playlist!
Context browser is important in amaroK but the central widget should be the playlist!
I will have to vote negatively along with the others.
One of the original reasons why I loved amarok so much was how easy it was to go through huge playlists, organizing unsorted music, etc. (for these tasks a large playlist and search bar are a must).
On top of that, tabs are still around, so it's not like that issue was addressed. :-/
If some of the developers would like to play around with this concept, could you at least have an option to revert to the old layout?
One of the original reasons why I loved amarok so much was how easy it was to go through huge playlists, organizing unsorted music, etc. (for these tasks a large playlist and search bar are a must).
On top of that, tabs are still around, so it's not like that issue was addressed. :-/
If some of the developers would like to play around with this concept, could you at least have an option to revert to the old layout?
I am liking this, I can tell its a work in progress.. but thats why it's svn
An ideas.. Showing context browser for various songs in the collection, instead of just the current playing song, this would be hot.
I also really like comment 13, I think this reordering would be nice.
Multi-column will be nice once a new css style gets rolled, some possible other changes could include showing artist/album information side by side in wiki, a lyrics editor section within the lyrics window itself, and all sorts of fun other stuff.
I think this change really emphasizes a key point behind amaroK. amaroK is a player that blends collection and playlist, it is not a player like xmms where it is playlist centric, it depends on the collection to enhance it. People using it just for a playlist are missing out on a number of major changes, and if they start playing around with various options (dynamic playlists fex) I feel they will enjoy it.
also
>If some of the developers would like to play around with >this concept, could you at least have an option to revert >to the old layout?
It's called 1.4.0
svn is testing playinground.
An ideas.. Showing context browser for various songs in the collection, instead of just the current playing song, this would be hot.
I also really like comment 13, I think this reordering would be nice.
Multi-column will be nice once a new css style gets rolled, some possible other changes could include showing artist/album information side by side in wiki, a lyrics editor section within the lyrics window itself, and all sorts of fun other stuff.
I think this change really emphasizes a key point behind amaroK. amaroK is a player that blends collection and playlist, it is not a player like xmms where it is playlist centric, it depends on the collection to enhance it. People using it just for a playlist are missing out on a number of major changes, and if they start playing around with various options (dynamic playlists fex) I feel they will enjoy it.
also
>If some of the developers would like to play around with >this concept, could you at least have an option to revert >to the old layout?
It's called 1.4.0
svn is testing playinground.
If you go with the context/wiki/lyrics at the right, please please use the first one. What is the problem with an extra tab there, there is enough space there. The tabs were a problem on the sidebar, not on the right.
So I oppose to any splitview. Actually I hate splitviews.
So I oppose to any splitview. Actually I hate splitviews.
Or to take it a little further (as a few of us were discussing on IRC) make them browsers rather than tabs, like the side browsers.
This has the advantage of being able to hide individual browsers, for example if you don't use lyrics, as well as being able to minimise the whole panel with a click.
This has the advantage of being able to hide individual browsers, for example if you don't use lyrics, as well as being able to minimise the whole panel with a click.
Personally, I would be very happy with that. I can't stand this new layout, and the only browser I have visible on the side anyway is the Playlist browser (and Context in previous layout). It would definitely make much more sense for me...
I really like the double pane look. I would totally use that I think.
Ok, I've tried SVN now. And I really hate it. Sorry :/
It makes no sense to me. It's a waste of space (I don't need that much width for Music/Lyrics tab), I want more vertical space for the playlist/Music/Lyrics. Well, since this is just a test, I hope it'll improve much more.
It makes no sense to me. It's a waste of space (I don't need that much width for Music/Lyrics tab), I want more vertical space for the playlist/Music/Lyrics. Well, since this is just a test, I hope it'll improve much more.
ATM I'm not to impressed. Though I do understand that this is a WIP. But until that time I've moved my context browser outside of amarok completely and put it in the Universal Sidebar. This way I have can view music stats any time w/o the playlist window open. It also keeps the playlist view dedicated to just playlist/file management. So, to rehash my setup:
- player window open for its controls/vis.
- playlist window only open to change playlist/queues
- universal sidebar w/ amarok sidebar added for rapid access to the stats/listening suggestions/info/lyrics/etc.
...A little different from what I've been doing prior, but it works quite well.
- player window open for its controls/vis.
- playlist window only open to change playlist/queues
- universal sidebar w/ amarok sidebar added for rapid access to the stats/listening suggestions/info/lyrics/etc.
...A little different from what I've been doing prior, but it works quite well.
I think there should be possible to configure how amaroK looks in the way that foobar2000 alows. It's the only way to make everyone happy 
. [sorry for my English]
. [sorry for my English]
That's however not the path amaroK follows. I believe making a good interface is the task of the developer, not the user. Too much configurability hurts usability.
You may want to take a look at Noatun - that is ultra-configurable, and may actually be what you want
NB: Yes, i realise this sounds odd, someone from the 'roK team suggesting another player - but really, we do this for you, we just want happy users!
NB: Yes, i realise this sounds odd, someone from the 'roK team suggesting another player - but really, we do this for you, we just want happy users!
Just wanted to say I don't like this either. I also have a question (because I don't follow development so much, I guess): what's wrong with the current layout?
If I select the context tab I can resize it, make it bigger and thus have more room to read what's in there? Imho I never actually 'use' the playlist and the context stuff at the same time, so temporarily resizing one of the two isn't so much of a problem for me.
I guess if it's above or under the playlist (PLEASE make it completely hideable!) I wouldn't use it anymore.
There's a lot going in the amaroK interface and there's a lot of information anywhere so I think it's a good think people think about how it can be made better.
If I select the context tab I can resize it, make it bigger and thus have more room to read what's in there? Imho I never actually 'use' the playlist and the context stuff at the same time, so temporarily resizing one of the two isn't so much of a problem for me.
I guess if it's above or under the playlist (PLEASE make it completely hideable!) I wouldn't use it anymore.
There's a lot going in the amaroK interface and there's a lot of information anywhere so I think it's a good think people think about how it can be made better.
It is actually already entirely hideable - both the context browser and the playlist too Just drag the separator all the way one way - the reason i guess you might not notice this straight away is that you can't make either of the views so small that they are useless, so they sort of snap to a minimum size, and then to entirely hidden
Just drag the separator all the way one way - the reason i guess you might not notice this straight away is that you can't make either of the views so small that they are useless, so they sort of snap to a minimum size, and then to entirely hidden
Yea but in the "old" amaroK you could display both at full size, playlist AND context browser. This is not possible anymore so you have to decide which one is more important for you and that sucks imho. I excessively used both of them and need both of them displayed fullsize at once and probably many people more. Please consider that, too.
I HATE the new layout !!! the old onet was very good!!! at lest leave an option to chose it, please,
Add me as another one voting for the old layout to at least be a configuration option.
I think the sidebar lends itself much more naturally to the sequential display of an artist's albums and a song's lyrics. If the Wikipedia tab is too narrow for some, why not add an option of opening what's displayed there in a separate window?
The issue of "too many tabs" isn't really mitigated this way either, IMHO. Much rather, I even think it becomes worse because now you have tabs in two distinct places.
I also don't see why KMail's UI should be a model for amaroK's -- just because this layout makes sense for reading and composing mails doesn't mean it's ideal for a music management application. On the one hand, you are striving to make amaroK unique and the best music management application there is, and on the other hand you're now trying to be metaphoric of other applications in entirely different domains?!
This is not meant as a rant. Yet it's certainly indicative of the rather strong feelings this redesign provokes with quite a few users, as evidenced by the large number of critical posts made by others. What's more, this is certainly just the tip of an iceberg as I doubt that the majority of amaroK users even reads this blog.
So, to reiterate what's been requested before: Please keep the old layout as an option.
I think the sidebar lends itself much more naturally to the sequential display of an artist's albums and a song's lyrics. If the Wikipedia tab is too narrow for some, why not add an option of opening what's displayed there in a separate window?
The issue of "too many tabs" isn't really mitigated this way either, IMHO. Much rather, I even think it becomes worse because now you have tabs in two distinct places.
I also don't see why KMail's UI should be a model for amaroK's -- just because this layout makes sense for reading and composing mails doesn't mean it's ideal for a music management application. On the one hand, you are striving to make amaroK unique and the best music management application there is, and on the other hand you're now trying to be metaphoric of other applications in entirely different domains?!
This is not meant as a rant. Yet it's certainly indicative of the rather strong feelings this redesign provokes with quite a few users, as evidenced by the large number of critical posts made by others. What's more, this is certainly just the tip of an iceberg as I doubt that the majority of amaroK users even reads this blog.
So, to reiterate what's been requested before: Please keep the old layout as an option.
I'm voting for the old layout too. I want the playlist to be as big as possible, but i also want to see the context browser at the same time. context on left, and playlist on the right is what's best for that (=old layout).
Hi, i've been trying the new layout for a few days and these are my thoughts:
In the firsts uses i've found that the collection looks rather dull if i can't change it to context
so it might just use the collection side to show the statistcs (at least it has the colourfull icons..
also i found myself tring to increase the playlist's heigth all the time: it just look to small but i guess it's a matter of habit.
But that made the context tabs look so bad ... so i'm made it even: (50/50) , which means i have to clean more often the playlist.
i might find interesting the idea of 2 columns in the contextbrowser : one for the music::context and other with music::general
where context are favorite tracks & albuns by the artist that is playing and general the "No Track Playing, Your Newest Albums, Favorite Albums"
Is there any ideas on intergrating the visualizations on the player instead of opening the (to) tiny wwindow?
In the firsts uses i've found that the collection looks rather dull if i can't change it to context
so it might just use the collection side to show the statistcs (at least it has the colourfull icons..
also i found myself tring to increase the playlist's heigth all the time: it just look to small but i guess it's a matter of habit.
But that made the context tabs look so bad ... so i'm made it even: (50/50) , which means i have to clean more often the playlist.
i might find interesting the idea of 2 columns in the contextbrowser : one for the music::context and other with music::general
where context are favorite tracks & albuns by the artist that is playing and general the "No Track Playing, Your Newest Albums, Favorite Albums"
Is there any ideas on intergrating the visualizations on the player instead of opening the (to) tiny wwindow?
I must also say that I do not like the new proposed layout for three main reasons:
1) The lyrics are supposed to be very narrow and on the other hand very high hence there is no point in placing them there
2) Same goes for the artist page - even after css modifications, the list of related songs and songs are using vertical space not horizontal
3) The playlist should keep its main focus
For the wikipedia tab its really personal flavor to have it narrow or wide... so it does not really matter where it is.
The only advantage I can currently see is, that the collection can be visible while showing the context information.
Ok, one note I just placed the context browser below the playlist and it looks much less distracting...
Swap the QVBox'es in playlistwindow.cpp like:
QVBox *plBox = new QVBox( split );
QVBox *cbBox = new QVBox( split );
I think the way to go should be to make it configurable - like make the browser tabs detachable via drag&drop....
Still the problem with the lyrics - I see problem usability wise to make them multicolumn as they probably will not even fit in two columns in many cases.
So how to scroll? Are there any reference designs from other programs that solve this?
1) The lyrics are supposed to be very narrow and on the other hand very high hence there is no point in placing them there
2) Same goes for the artist page - even after css modifications, the list of related songs and songs are using vertical space not horizontal
3) The playlist should keep its main focus
For the wikipedia tab its really personal flavor to have it narrow or wide... so it does not really matter where it is.
The only advantage I can currently see is, that the collection can be visible while showing the context information.
Ok, one note I just placed the context browser below the playlist and it looks much less distracting...
Swap the QVBox'es in playlistwindow.cpp like:
QVBox *plBox = new QVBox( split );
QVBox *cbBox = new QVBox( split );
I think the way to go should be to make it configurable - like make the browser tabs detachable via drag&drop....
Still the problem with the lyrics - I see problem usability wise to make them multicolumn as they probably will not even fit in two columns in many cases.
So how to scroll? Are there any reference designs from other programs that solve this?
Why not put Context Browser back at it's place and leave lyrics and artists tabs as it is now on second screenshot? Now search above tyni playlist looks ridiculous, empty space on context browser looks wasted.
I loved 1.3, got used to 1.4, but this drives me nuts
I loved 1.3, got used to 1.4, but this drives me nuts
Hello,
I did not like the idea with moving Music/Lyrics/Artist tab to the top.
First of all, more information is available when it's on the left side, not top. Informations are more longer than more wider.
Secondly, when I get rid of that top-seperated Music bar, I need to click & drag seperator to show album info; when it was on the left side, I've needed only one click on tab to unhide it.
When I want to read info about song:
- I need to maximize the window (there's so much space to see playlist and info)
OR
- move seperator down (hiding the playlist) and scroll information box to reach all the info.
In my opinion, it should be configurable. Users should have ability to choose if they want to have Music/Lyrics/Artist on the top, or on the left side of amaroK.
And *unfortunately*, it's first thing I don't like in amaroK
Best,
vip
I did not like the idea with moving Music/Lyrics/Artist tab to the top.
First of all, more information is available when it's on the left side, not top. Informations are more longer than more wider.
Secondly, when I get rid of that top-seperated Music bar, I need to click & drag seperator to show album info; when it was on the left side, I've needed only one click on tab to unhide it.
When I want to read info about song:
- I need to maximize the window (there's so much space to see playlist and info)
OR
- move seperator down (hiding the playlist) and scroll information box to reach all the info.
In my opinion, it should be configurable. Users should have ability to choose if they want to have Music/Lyrics/Artist on the top, or on the left side of amaroK.
And *unfortunately*, it's first thing I don't like in amaroK
Best,
vip
i totally agree with you
this new arrangement is not a good improvement : i always have more than 100 songs in the playlist and with the svn version it is becoming annying to find the desired song
i'm using amarok since 0.9 and it's the first time i'm badly surprised
at least give the user the choice ....
this new arrangement is not a good improvement : i always have more than 100 songs in the playlist and with the svn version it is becoming annying to find the desired song
i'm using amarok since 0.9 and it's the first time i'm badly surprised
at least give the user the choice ....
good point i really used to like concept of amarok and so but i did upgrade from svn rencently and my opinion is just about wommiting it out!
this is gross! *ugly, unnoticable and useless*, as i said i really like amarok but you should give us a choice and not just listen some hig idiots, i will downgrade once more, and eventually hunt down and shin this "Human Interface Guidelines" assholes!
no, i am joking but you can see by yourselfs how terrible thing is this
http://nescius.dizgrafix.cz/images/amarok-crap.png
i really used to like concept of amarok and so but i did upgrade from svn rencently and my opinion is just about wommiting it out!this is gross! *ugly, unnoticable and useless*, as i said i really like amarok but you should give us a choice and not just listen some hig idiots, i will downgrade once more, and eventually hunt down and shin this "Human Interface Guidelines" assholes!
no, i am joking but you can see by yourselfs how terrible thing is this
http://nescius.dizgrafix.cz/images/amarok-crap.png
I think the way around this conflict would be to switch to KMdi Layout using something like KMdiMainFrm and place everything as dock-able tabs (like Kexi/KDevelop).
See the KDevelop C++ -> KMdi project template.
This way one can drop the tabs (i.e. browsers) where one likes to.. for example placing collection left and context right (or like the initial suggestion on top).
Make the playlist the most consuming widget (like KDevelop's editor widget).
I don't know if it would be bad usability wise... on the other hand one could just leave the default setup and be happy with it - everybody else can place their browsers where they want to....
This should be straightforward to implement and would give much more freedom to everybody.
See the KDevelop C++ -> KMdi project template.
This way one can drop the tabs (i.e. browsers) where one likes to.. for example placing collection left and context right (or like the initial suggestion on top).
Make the playlist the most consuming widget (like KDevelop's editor widget).
I don't know if it would be bad usability wise... on the other hand one could just leave the default setup and be happy with it - everybody else can place their browsers where they want to....
This should be straightforward to implement and would give much more freedom to everybody.
I agree with the above. This approach allows to see e.g. lyrics, wikipedia and collection browser when listening to the music (if user wants it and has enough place).
The new layout in current state is very discouraging for me. I like the 'classical amarok' one. The playlist should keep its main role.
But as classic says:
'Only evolution can bring whole new ideas.'
The new layout in current state is very discouraging for me. I like the 'classical amarok' one. The playlist should keep its main role.
But as classic says:
'Only evolution can bring whole new ideas.'
Well, it's VERY bad, because I tested many players for Linux (noatun included), and the amaroK is the nearest thing to foobar2000. But it lacks ESSENTIAL features, like setting %album% - %title% as column (then the columns doesn't have to be as big as in amaroK). The good thing in new amaroK (the step in the right way) is ability to remove not used browser (f. e. I use only Files browser).
I prefer the first proposal, and 4 tabs is not all that much, in my opinion.
I dislike the first proposal even more. However, I think I'll be able to live with this "face lift" if it worked like e.g. Kate; you're able to move the sidebars to top/bottom/left/right. Yeah, that would be awsome. (Well, in Amarok you probably won't be able to move it to bottom/right?)
Really i don't see why you wouldn't be able to do that... Just because the toolbar is there doesn't mean that you couldn't move something there Personally, i have some ideas about the toolbar as well, but that is just my ponderings
For the record, i like the idea of being able to drag-reposition the browsers... It would make a lot of people very happy
Personally, i have some ideas about the toolbar as well, but that is just my ponderings For the record, i like the idea of being able to drag-reposition the browsers... It would make a lot of people very happy
ooh. that would be even better than just a choice between left/top
similar to what k3b has, maybe ? though k3b allows (or allowed) also floating components... that might be too much for amarok
similar to what k3b has, maybe ? though k3b allows (or allowed) also floating components... that might be too much for amarok
for everybody who is not eyphoric about the new layout
note that i am not opposing this layout in every situation - but it is unusable with screens at 1024x768. and quite a lot of users still have those.
for some polite discussion and further reasoning on how this could be resolved you could visit http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128808
if you support that proposal, vote on it, please
note that i am not opposing this layout in every situation - but it is unusable with screens at 1024x768. and quite a lot of users still have those.
for some polite discussion and further reasoning on how this could be resolved you could visit http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128808
if you support that proposal, vote on it, please
I've just had my first introduction to the new Amarok layout after updating to the latest svn version (549505) and have to say, I don't like it at all ... the context browser is now about 30 pixels high, giving enough space to display 'No Track Playing' and an up scroll arrow. I can't find any handle or menu option with which to resize it!
I don't like it at all, I even thought my Qt was broken or something. ^^
Seriously, the way it was before made WAY more sense, the division is totally arbitrary anyways ... why are these on top and the others not?
Anyways IF this madness should come true, I would strongly suggest making it configurable...
Because this is just *wrong*, its *wrooong*.
Seriously, the way it was before made WAY more sense, the division is totally arbitrary anyways ... why are these on top and the others not?
Anyways IF this madness should come true, I would strongly suggest making it configurable...
Because this is just *wrong*, its *wrooong*.
I sure hope the context browser still can, if a user wants so, be placed back where it has been before. It looks best as just a sidebar instead of a topbar. It's just too wide as a topbar like that.
"* GUI layout reverted to the classic Amarok layout."
One of the nicest changelog entry
Thanks!
But please, don't offend on us for our opinions, Your work on gui improvements is very appreciated.
It really makes amaroK the best...
One of the nicest changelog entry
Thanks!
But please, don't offend on us for our opinions, Your work on gui improvements is very appreciated.
It really makes amaroK the best...
Hi I like your work, espacially the first one iss awful.
I can't understand your second try.
The GUI iss overloaded again with functions, what iss a big kde problem at all.
And the point that you need 4 Tabs in the first view iss rubbish, because you have the playlist button on the left which makes the tab above for the playlist redundand and so deleteable =)
I can't understand your second try.
The GUI iss overloaded again with functions, what iss a big kde problem at all.
And the point that you need 4 Tabs in the first view iss rubbish, because you have the playlist button on the left which makes the tab above for the playlist redundand and so deleteable =)
