Tuesday, May 20. 2008
A wolf in designer clothing
Ok, so I kinda liked the latter iterations of the Graywolf look for Amarok 2. Apparently, not many others did though. So Lee Olson ( our main artist at the moment ) and I have been thinking of alternatives for a while. And It would seem we have finally come up with something that has managed to get most of the Amarok team excited. It is still in the initial phase and a lot of work is needed still, but so far it is already a huge improvements to the overall look of Amarok 2, at leasts in my humble opinion. This new look is much more clean, and actually a lot closer to our initial idea of what Amarok 2 should look like.
But all this text really does not give an idea of what this looks like, so here goes:
Besides just updated SVGs and a new way of rendering the background, it is also worth noting that a great number of redundant borders and frames have been removed. Of course, the theme still uses the system palette to blend in, even though, it at the moments adds just a touch of color. So on other themes, it looks quite drastically different:
I personally find the black one quite striking, although the highlights in the background would likely benefit from being "tuned down" just a little bit.
On the technical side of things, all the SVG graphics has been moved into a single file and a DBus command has been added to load a different SVG file without restarting Amarok. This, along with out new nightly build service NEON, makes it a lot easier for artists to contribute, as it is no longer necessary to build Amarok 2 and dependencies from source, or rebuild Amarok 2 just to try out some changes in the SVG file. Hopefully, this will allow more artists to contribute in the near future.
But all this text really does not give an idea of what this looks like, so here goes:
Besides just updated SVGs and a new way of rendering the background, it is also worth noting that a great number of redundant borders and frames have been removed. Of course, the theme still uses the system palette to blend in, even though, it at the moments adds just a touch of color. So on other themes, it looks quite drastically different:
I personally find the black one quite striking, although the highlights in the background would likely benefit from being "tuned down" just a little bit.
On the technical side of things, all the SVG graphics has been moved into a single file and a DBus command has been added to load a different SVG file without restarting Amarok. This, along with out new nightly build service NEON, makes it a lot easier for artists to contribute, as it is no longer necessary to build Amarok 2 and dependencies from source, or rebuild Amarok 2 just to try out some changes in the SVG file. Hopefully, this will allow more artists to contribute in the near future.
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Fixed, thanks! 
( I made that mistake in my last blog post as well... )
I am sure Lee will read this as well at some point, but I will be sure to pass it on!
( I made that mistake in my last blog post as well... )I am sure Lee will read this as well at some point, but I will be sure to pass it on!
Amarok is really coming along nicely. icons, layout and all.
BUT... I think the window is quite full of different elements: buttons, plasma goodness, drop-down menus, etc. Having the glassy reflections cover everything, as in the current look, distract from the cleanness and overview-ability IMHO.
Have you tried without the reflections, or to tone them down?
BUT... I think the window is quite full of different elements: buttons, plasma goodness, drop-down menus, etc. Having the glassy reflections cover everything, as in the current look, distract from the cleanness and overview-ability IMHO.
Have you tried without the reflections, or to tone them down?
No, we have not experimented that much with it at all yet, as the theme really just started coming together a few days ago. But it is definitely something we will play with to get the right balance between flash and cleanness
But again, this is something that will be very easy for the artists to adjust now that they can reload the entire thing with a single command.
But again, this is something that will be very easy for the artists to adjust now that they can reload the entire thing with a single command.
Sweet! This looks awesome. I'm slowly getting i'm hopes up for Amarok2 again
Excellent job guys!
Amarok is and will (continue to) be the best audio player in the world...
Will there be an option to change themes in the configuration dialog (like in the old amarok 1.4.x days)?
Sorry for my bad English...
Amarok is and will (continue to) be the best audio player in the world...
Will there be an option to change themes in the configuration dialog (like in the old amarok 1.4.x days)?
Sorry for my bad English...
Will it be possible to turn this off? I'd much rather Amarok just integrated visually with the rest of my desktop, so I can pick one theme. I understand the reasons for the 1.4 series icon theme, but going this far seems like a big regression!
I find the diagonals really distracting, and I don't like that some of my intuitions about the interface that are consistent across KDE are suddenly challenged.
The layout, the middle section and other less obtrusive aspects of the theming are looking really nice though.
I find the diagonals really distracting, and I don't like that some of my intuitions about the interface that are consistent across KDE are suddenly challenged.
The layout, the middle section and other less obtrusive aspects of the theming are looking really nice though.
+1
I really intended to switch to Amarok, becasue I've heard so many good things about it, but having to live with a whole different style in this application is really a turn down.
I simply don't understand why every player and 3d modeler thinks they should do so.
Oh and the ability to turn this off hopefully extends to putting the frames back in.
I really intended to switch to Amarok, becasue I've heard so many good things about it, but having to live with a whole different style in this application is really a turn down.
I simply don't understand why every player and 3d modeler thinks they should do so.
Oh and the ability to turn this off hopefully extends to putting the frames back in.
I strongly doubt that the look of Amarok 2 will be very configurable in the 2.0 release.
I do understand some of your concerns though, and the actual coloration of the theme is something that we will certainly play around with ( Right now it uses 80% of the current color themes window color )
As I mentioned in the blog entry, this is very new, a few days old, and it has a few months of tweaking ahead of it.
I do understand some of your concerns though, and the actual coloration of the theme is something that we will certainly play around with ( Right now it uses 80% of the current color themes window color )
As I mentioned in the blog entry, this is very new, a few days old, and it has a few months of tweaking ahead of it.
Last post with screenshot my reakction was: This is awesome, clear and nice. Only volume slider was strange.
But now? Background is very disturbing and parts of a window (context view, collection etc.) are not visibly separated.
But now? Background is very disturbing and parts of a window (context view, collection etc.) are not visibly separated.
Good work
Imho the background need to be improved (maybe with curves softer gradients.. the diagonals are quite disturbing)
The rest already looks really good to me (excellent layout and icons)
congratulations
Imho the background need to be improved (maybe with curves softer gradients.. the diagonals are quite disturbing)
The rest already looks really good to me (excellent layout and icons)
congratulations
Hmm... I preferred the old one (that was displayed in the blog post you linked to).
Can we have that as an alternative (perhaps on kde-look.org/GHNS)?
Can we have that as an alternative (perhaps on kde-look.org/GHNS)?
Looks great.
I appreciate your innovative modern style. And please leave the frames out. It's much better this way.
I don't understand way people request the same style for all applications. I would like it better if i could choose a different style for every single app, and if they have reflections it looks even better. ( Can you make them moving slowly ? )
I appreciate your innovative modern style. And please leave the frames out. It's much better this way.
I don't understand way people request the same style for all applications. I would like it better if i could choose a different style for every single app, and if they have reflections it looks even better. ( Can you make them moving slowly ? )
Very nice, but what the hell are these diagonal lines? They serve no purpose and distract the user from what's important (their music and related information).
Hehe!
The simple truth is that the svg element that is currently rendered behind everything was originally only meant to cover the context view and top toolbar. So the decorations on might be a litle to heavy for being behind list widgets and such.
As I have mentioned quite a few times here already, its something we will be continually tweaking from now on.
The simple truth is that the svg element that is currently rendered behind everything was originally only meant to cover the context view and top toolbar. So the decorations on might be a litle to heavy for being behind list widgets and such.
As I have mentioned quite a few times here already, its something we will be continually tweaking from now on.
Maybe this won't apply to a Mac version, but why don't you combine the menu and the play controls and volume slider? Right now there is lots of wasted space right of the menu and left of the controls.
Apart from that, I'm really excited about how clean the interface looks with all the borders removed. Great work! I'm also interested though how it would look with just the default Oxygen background.
Apart from that, I'm really excited about how clean the interface looks with all the borders removed. Great work! I'm also interested though how it would look with just the default Oxygen background.
There is no such thing as "wasted space". The free space is actually there by design. It allows to rest your eyes.
I like Graywulf. I use Amarok because of its usability AND system default look. I like when it looks like all KDE applications, but with some little own details. It's my opinion.
Hate to sound negative but a native theme that integrates with the rest of kde would be much better, IM(subjective)O.
And making the playlist a single colour(instead of alternating colours) would look much cleaner.
And making the playlist a single colour(instead of alternating colours) would look much cleaner.
"Native" is a pretty dangerous term for something that will be available on *nix, Windows and OSX.
Perhaps the background is too colorful in its current form ( it is a first draft ), but everything is done using only colors from the system color theme, so it actually does integrate very well.
Perhaps the background is too colorful in its current form ( it is a first draft ), but everything is done using only colors from the system color theme, so it actually does integrate very well.
Firefox 3 can do it. So could you.
You guys are going to far with the theming you know.
On the other hand. I've never seen such an overwhelmingly positive thread on the Internet, so what do I know?
You guys are going to far with the theming you know.
On the other hand. I've never seen such an overwhelmingly positive thread on the Internet, so what do I know?
Very bad example. I don't know what distribution do you use, but vanilla mozilla is very ugly and bad integrated in kde. I don't use the last version in windows, but 2.x series have the same problem and I think that the OSX have the same problem when they have another program ONLY FOR THAT!!!!!
I use Ubuntu, Vista, XP and OS X. All of them, every day.
Try out Firefox 3, once you've done that you can buy me a beer and beg for my forgiveness. I may offer it to you. I may not. It depends on your choice of beer.
Try out Firefox 3, once you've done that you can buy me a beer and beg for my forgiveness. I may offer it to you. I may not. It depends on your choice of beer.
Well, looking again, it's all Oxygen widgets, and your progress bars are truly lovely. So I take it back.
But you've gone too far into frameless territory
I'd suggest some very slight definitions between the toolbar and the centralWidget(), and some slight definition between the three columns. I'd start experimenting with shadows personally.
And add a minor frame to eg the cover art in the context view. A subtle grey, maybe with a barely visible shadow around the bottom two thirds.
The white wiki view is really contrasting in most of the screenies. You can fight that with a frame. But it would be nicer to give it a hint of the theme's colour if possible.
Good luck. I'm well impressed with how Amarok 2 is shaping up
But you've gone too far into frameless territory
I'd suggest some very slight definitions between the toolbar and the centralWidget(), and some slight definition between the three columns. I'd start experimenting with shadows personally.
And add a minor frame to eg the cover art in the context view. A subtle grey, maybe with a barely visible shadow around the bottom two thirds.
The white wiki view is really contrasting in most of the screenies. You can fight that with a frame. But it would be nicer to give it a hint of the theme's colour if possible.
Good luck. I'm well impressed with how Amarok 2 is shaping up
> But you've gone too far into frameless territory
Yes, we agree with most of these points ( we have already discussed them ). The one thing thats on the top of my todo list is making the dividers ( which are actually still there, separating the 3 main areas and allowing resizing ) more visible in a subtle way.
> The white wiki view is really contrasting in most of the screenies.
With regards to the wiki view being all white, that is an issue with the widget I am currently using. There is a new native plasma widget that renders QWebKit directly on to a plasma applet, allowing you to bypass the white background completely. This is also on my todo list.
Yes, we agree with most of these points ( we have already discussed them ). The one thing thats on the top of my todo list is making the dividers ( which are actually still there, separating the 3 main areas and allowing resizing ) more visible in a subtle way.
> The white wiki view is really contrasting in most of the screenies.
With regards to the wiki view being all white, that is an issue with the widget I am currently using. There is a new native plasma widget that renders QWebKit directly on to a plasma applet, allowing you to bypass the white background completely. This is also on my todo list.
Ok, here is an attempt at solving the first issue. Themable divider handles!
http://nhnfreespirit.kollide.net/pics/Amarok%202%20screen%20-%2020080521.png
Ok, so they are not that pretty yet, but they are themable...
http://nhnfreespirit.kollide.net/pics/Amarok%202%20screen%20-%2020080521.png
Ok, so they are not that pretty yet, but they are themable...
Very cool, Nikolaj
I hate to complain when people are trying too hard because trying is productive but you are just trying too hard, stick with the Oxygen style (Nuno is good at what he does), remove the context view (Konqueror is good at what it does), remove the files tab (dolphin is good at what it does) then we are on to a winner.
Remember you could end up with this monstrosity:
http://www.homehypercity.co.za/images/2/2a/203822.jpg
when class costs nothing:
http://tplusa.ru/ta/m820_stereo.jpg
A project isn't finished when you have added all that you can but when you have removed all that is unnecessary.
Remember you could end up with this monstrosity:
http://www.homehypercity.co.za/images/2/2a/203822.jpg
when class costs nothing:
http://tplusa.ru/ta/m820_stereo.jpg
A project isn't finished when you have added all that you can but when you have removed all that is unnecessary.
You seem to be looking for: http://www.dragonplayer.org/
Who are those Artist icons supposed to be? Barry Manilow? Dieter Thomas Kuhn?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism
I'm sorry, you get 0 points. Do you want to play again?
I'm sorry, you get 0 points. Do you want to play again?
looks nice, Background is a bit strong, but overall with more tweaking I think it will look great. Ignore most of the negative comments. They seem so out of place and some of them stupid. Some people must not have read what KDE was all about. Providing a full desktop with functional apps that all used the same theme.
YES, YES, YES and YES!!!
Now we're talking. That looks a lot cleaner and more proffesional. I just loathed those curvy thingies from previous graywolf iterations.
However, I still think that the frame around the playback buttons looks a bit out of place. Can't it just be removed ??
Also, as someone said above, the reflections are a bit too heavy for an overall background. Some curves or whirly shapes with succint gradients might look a lot better. I mean, something along the lines of MS Money, but done in your own fashion:
http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/Microsoft-Money-v_1.png
Anyway, still needs tweaking, but a HUGE improvement IMHO.
Now we're talking. That looks a lot cleaner and more proffesional. I just loathed those curvy thingies from previous graywolf iterations.
However, I still think that the frame around the playback buttons looks a bit out of place. Can't it just be removed ??
Also, as someone said above, the reflections are a bit too heavy for an overall background. Some curves or whirly shapes with succint gradients might look a lot better. I mean, something along the lines of MS Money, but done in your own fashion:
http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/Microsoft-Money-v_1.png
Anyway, still needs tweaking, but a HUGE improvement IMHO.
Mmmm, it (*looks*) very nice, from an art point of view, but I'm afraid I'm very skeptical about the basic design. I know this has been raised in the past, but I'm still unconvinced by that big area in the middle. It is by far the biggest user of space, and yet what it is doing, showing the wikipedia page! Don't get me wrong, I love the fact we can see wikipedia's page on the artist I'm listening to, and use it all the time with Amarok, but I just don't see any reason for it to be made so significant. And yeah, I know, that space isn't just for wikipedia, we'll be able to do other things with it too, but I can't think of anything that could possibly justify having more space than the playlist in a media player! If this was any thing other than Amarok 2 then I'd simply dismiss this design as foolishness and ignore the whole app, but since you guys made the spectacularly awesome Amarok, whose UI leaves everything in the dust, I can't help thinking that maybe there is something I've missed. So please convince me, why are you relegating the playlist down to little space on the side?
By the way, by other media player is foobar (have to use Windows at work). There is barely a day that goes by when I don't wish Amarok Windows was here already, and I sorely miss wikipedia integration, lyrics integration, podcasts, getting album covers from amazon and support for my phone as a media player. Your extra features are an awesome bonus to Amarok's use as a media player, I'm just worried you are promoting them to more than a bonus and to a position higher than the fundamental function of choosing music to play.
By the way, by other media player is foobar (have to use Windows at work). There is barely a day that goes by when I don't wish Amarok Windows was here already, and I sorely miss wikipedia integration, lyrics integration, podcasts, getting album covers from amazon and support for my phone as a media player. Your extra features are an awesome bonus to Amarok's use as a media player, I'm just worried you are promoting them to more than a bonus and to a position higher than the fundamental function of choosing music to play.
The very basic idea driving the design of Amarok 2, is that the context tab of Amarok 1 was what really set it apart from other players, but there were some serious limitations that we wanted to address. Chief among these, was the simple fact that you could not display this info at the same time that you were browsing for content ( which also leaves out the possibility of getting information about the content you are browsing. )
Hence it was decided to try to take the context view and make it the centerpiece of Amarok 2. This drove the need to come up with a new playlist that could be efficient, look good, and not have to take up as much space as the old column based one.
In its current form, this new central view already offers some new functionality, such as showing album and artist info about content from online services and other cool stuff.
What is really worth noting though, is that everything can be resized, so getting rid of the context view is as easy as dragging the browser panel and the playlist together. And we even have a ( work in progress, needs someone to pick it up and really make it good ) classical playlist view that you can switch to.
So in my view, we have not compromised the music playing ability, but we have turned Amarok from "rediscover your music" into "discover music" with all the new services and context info.
Hence it was decided to try to take the context view and make it the centerpiece of Amarok 2. This drove the need to come up with a new playlist that could be efficient, look good, and not have to take up as much space as the old column based one.
In its current form, this new central view already offers some new functionality, such as showing album and artist info about content from online services and other cool stuff.
What is really worth noting though, is that everything can be resized, so getting rid of the context view is as easy as dragging the browser panel and the playlist together. And we even have a ( work in progress, needs someone to pick it up and really make it good ) classical playlist view that you can switch to.
So in my view, we have not compromised the music playing ability, but we have turned Amarok from "rediscover your music" into "discover music" with all the new services and context info.
The funny thing is that, despite my criticism, I have a strange feeling that there is something amazing possible that could be done with a big context view, something about the "discover your music" has a good ring to it. I don't think that wikipedia and lyrics alone are it, but they do feel like a good starting place. And even if this idea is wrong, and you don't manage to make good use of the space, I'm glad that you are trying something new.
And Fully resizeable, that's good to hear, just incase it doesn't work for me, I'll look forward to release to see what happens
And Fully resizeable, that's good to hear, just incase it doesn't work for me, I'll look forward to release to see what happens
The very basic idea driving the design of Amarok 2, is that the context tab of Amarok 1 was what really set it apart from other players
Well, that might be. But just to put my 2c in: the reason I'm an amarok user is that it's the only usable Linux player with a list of radio streams ("Cool-Streams" and "Shoutcast Streams").
And no, I don't have much use for the Collection, a playlist, or a "context browser"
More on topic: the new crazy gloss look is definitely the beginning of something great, and it's also totally awful as shown. I'm sure you'll work it out in the end.
Besides: removing the excessive frames is the best thing I've seen in Greywolf. Anyone who puts them back should be shot
Well, that might be. But just to put my 2c in: the reason I'm an amarok user is that it's the only usable Linux player with a list of radio streams ("Cool-Streams" and "Shoutcast Streams").
And no, I don't have much use for the Collection, a playlist, or a "context browser"
More on topic: the new crazy gloss look is definitely the beginning of something great, and it's also totally awful as shown. I'm sure you'll work it out in the end.
Besides: removing the excessive frames is the best thing I've seen in Greywolf. Anyone who puts them back should be shot
The design is starting to shape up nicely, though I would prefer to have the middle and left panes collapsable.
I've got a question though, is it going to be possible to have artist pictures that show instead of the head/shoulders in the collection viewer?
Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to a nice transition to V2
I've got a question though, is it going to be possible to have artist pictures that show instead of the head/shoulders in the collection viewer?
Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to a nice transition to V2
All 3 panels can be freely resized, even to size 0, so you can hide the context view completely, or even make the playlist take up ( almost, sans the space taken up by the 2 dividers ) the entire width.
Aaaah. Good deal.
I wonder if there will be a button to hide/unhide the context view so you don't always have to click/drag.
Thanks for the tip Nikolaj
I wonder if there will be a button to hide/unhide the context view so you don't always have to click/drag.
Thanks for the tip Nikolaj
There will be something much better
Just try dragging something to the playlist and see for yourself.
Just try dragging something to the playlist and see for yourself.
It's not a bad-looking theme.
But it doesn't look like a KDE application. It doesn't even look like a Qt application.
There are two approaches toward cross-platform applications; making them look native on all of the platforms they're on, as in Firefox, VLC, and whatnot (ignore that they're made for GTK for a moment; the fact is that they try to look "Linux-native") or to make them look non-native on all platforms.
I'm of the opinion, and I believe so are a lot of people, that the latter approach is by far the worse of the two. Why should a scrollbar look different in Amarok than in Konqueror or Safari? It's just confusing and generally unnecessary.
Now, I'm the first person to say that themes should be possible, even easy. But that doesn't mean that they should be the default.
But it doesn't look like a KDE application. It doesn't even look like a Qt application.
There are two approaches toward cross-platform applications; making them look native on all of the platforms they're on, as in Firefox, VLC, and whatnot (ignore that they're made for GTK for a moment; the fact is that they try to look "Linux-native") or to make them look non-native on all platforms.
I'm of the opinion, and I believe so are a lot of people, that the latter approach is by far the worse of the two. Why should a scrollbar look different in Amarok than in Konqueror or Safari? It's just confusing and generally unnecessary.
Now, I'm the first person to say that themes should be possible, even easy. But that doesn't mean that they should be the default.
(+)
- Looks cleaner.
(-)
- Diagonals all over the place - I don't even think I need an argument why it should go away?
- No frames as someone said, seems it's going to be fixed though.
- I don't like that the volume slider is that far away from the rest of the controls.
- I don't really like the huge position slider either, but I guess I can live with it.
---
It's nice to see that you're working on the interface. Sadly it still doesn't suit my taste; I much prefer the old mockup (http://kde.org.pl/wiki/images/0/01/RoadToKDE4_amarok_mockup.png) for the following reasons:
- Doesn't look too alien.
- The main toolbar stands out in a nice way without being distracting. (But can still be improved of course)
- If you place the main controls where the analyzer currently is, everything is placed in a way I like. The important controls (buttons, volume and position slider) in the same place. If I use the mouse I don't have to move it that much.
(I have it like that in Amarok 1.4.x too: http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8724/amarokdh2.png)
- The three panels are separated in a clear way and look what I would describe "clean, sharp and awesome". Well, obviously the playlist still need some work.
- Looks cleaner.
(-)
- Diagonals all over the place - I don't even think I need an argument why it should go away?
- No frames as someone said, seems it's going to be fixed though.
- I don't like that the volume slider is that far away from the rest of the controls.
- I don't really like the huge position slider either, but I guess I can live with it.
---
It's nice to see that you're working on the interface. Sadly it still doesn't suit my taste; I much prefer the old mockup (http://kde.org.pl/wiki/images/0/01/RoadToKDE4_amarok_mockup.png) for the following reasons:
- Doesn't look too alien.
- The main toolbar stands out in a nice way without being distracting. (But can still be improved of course)
- If you place the main controls where the analyzer currently is, everything is placed in a way I like. The important controls (buttons, volume and position slider) in the same place. If I use the mouse I don't have to move it that much.
(I have it like that in Amarok 1.4.x too: http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8724/amarokdh2.png)
- The three panels are separated in a clear way and look what I would describe "clean, sharp and awesome". Well, obviously the playlist still need some work.
Is the smooth (sub-pixel) volume slider and track position bar coming back? It was present in earlier builds of Amarok2 and I really liked how smoothly it traveled when dragged or moved (due to a track playing). When there is no subpixel rendering the bar jerks from pixel to pixel.
I will say in general I love where you guys are going with Amarok2!
I will say in general I love where you guys are going with Amarok2!
There has never been "sub pixel" rendering of these animations. I think I know what you mean though. Traditionally, the progress slider has only been able to move in "1 second" intervals, that is, multiples of pixels representing one second of the currently playing song. As this may be many pixels for short song, this is what makes the movement appear jerky.
What we have experimented with is animating the progress slider smoothly from one "second position" to the next. This code still has some issues though, so how it will look in 2.0 I cannot tell.
What we have experimented with is animating the progress slider smoothly from one "second position" to the next. This code still has some issues though, so how it will look in 2.0 I cannot tell.
Are you sure there wasn't anything more to it? I know for sure that when I dragged the time scrubber (is that what you call the little bar that moves as the song plays?) back and forth I got a "smooth" movement. I was curious as to why this was happening and so I zoomed in with the kwin4 zoom function. Both when I was dragging and when it was automatically moving because the song was playing the little circle shifted in colors as it (what I assumed) rendered itself in subpixel increments. Could your animations have been in effect even while I was manually dragging the bar? Note, I'm not talking about after letting go or when clicking to "jump" the song forwards, but as I was dragging.
Sorry if I'm imagining things, but it's certainly less smooth in this revision compared to back around late march or so.
Sorry if I'm imagining things, but it's certainly less smooth in this revision compared to back around late march or so.
One more thing I dislike about the layout (which was also present in the 1.4.x series) is the vertical tab bar on the left. Vertical text is difficult to read at frist glimpse and it makes the design look kinda "busy" (ask Celleste, from KDE usability).
Unfortunately the same applies to Okular and other KDE projects. Vertical tabs (be them with text or icons) are being used far too frequently.
QT has (had?) this nifty widget which allowed you to create collapsable panes, such as in the KPowersave settings dialog:
http://www.kde-apps.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/29295-2.png
(I'm referring to the entries under 'Screen Saver and DMPS', 'Brightness', 'Autosuspend' and 'Misc.')
That would be a great way to organize the many Amarok's modules, IMHO. Have you guys considered using that instead?
Unfortunately the same applies to Okular and other KDE projects. Vertical tabs (be them with text or icons) are being used far too frequently.
QT has (had?) this nifty widget which allowed you to create collapsable panes, such as in the KPowersave settings dialog:
http://www.kde-apps.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/29295-2.png
(I'm referring to the entries under 'Screen Saver and DMPS', 'Brightness', 'Autosuspend' and 'Misc.')
That would be a great way to organize the many Amarok's modules, IMHO. Have you guys considered using that instead?
Well, we should really have some sort of canned response for this. Yes, we know the vertical tabs are problematic, but we have spent a very considerable amount of time experimenting with other options, including the one you show there. We simply do not have the screen realestate to spend on that, and furthermore, the tabs there keep jumping around, so muscle memory is essentially rendered useless.
We decided to go with a more effectiveness and discoverability oriented usability methodology rather than the "the user is an idiot" initial-use usability that a lot of the world subscribes to.
So in short - yes, we have considered using it for around two weeks during the 1.2 cycle, where these experiments took place.
We decided to go with a more effectiveness and discoverability oriented usability methodology rather than the "the user is an idiot" initial-use usability that a lot of the world subscribes to.
So in short - yes, we have considered using it for around two weeks during the 1.2 cycle, where these experiments took place.
I like the new design a lot,
While I personally would not have the wiki open in the middle part, I would love to browse my artist by covers. Something like resizing the middle part to 0 and and replacing the librarylist with a coverbrowser. Its a shame to admit it, but Windows media player has a nice looking coverbrowser, nice pictures and just enough text to find your way around.
But we all know: Amarok beats the crap out of WMP in EVERY aspect
While I personally would not have the wiki open in the middle part, I would love to browse my artist by covers. Something like resizing the middle part to 0 and and replacing the librarylist with a coverbrowser. Its a shame to admit it, but Windows media player has a nice looking coverbrowser, nice pictures and just enough text to find your way around.
But we all know: Amarok beats the crap out of WMP in EVERY aspect
Too many things, too many distractions. Please, apply the KISS principle.
[...]We decided to go with a more effectiveness and discoverability oriented usability methodology rather than the "the user is an idiot" initial-use usability that a lot of the world subscribes to. [...]
Well, I work as a system's analyst and have been using Amarok, KDE and Linux for like... ages now. I'm quite used to complex software systems and also I'm not an idiot (methinks. But I still find Amarok's interface busy, and a bit too much "on your face".
[...]We simply do not have the screen realestate to spend on that[...]
Well, if a fully maximized window does not provide enough screen real state for the needs of a jukebox program.... Wouldn't you think that's because you are putting way too much stuff on that view?
I mean, c'mmon, boys, this is not HP OpenView or anything like that!
Mind you, I don't want to sound harsh or negative. All my points made, I still think Amarok is the best music player around (functionality-wise), and I still think the new skin is a great improvement over what we had before.
Well, I work as a system's analyst and have been using Amarok, KDE and Linux for like... ages now. I'm quite used to complex software systems and also I'm not an idiot (methinks
. But I still find Amarok's interface busy, and a bit too much "on your face".[...]We simply do not have the screen realestate to spend on that[...]
Well, if a fully maximized window does not provide enough screen real state for the needs of a jukebox program.... Wouldn't you think that's because you are putting way too much stuff on that view?
I mean, c'mmon, boys, this is not HP OpenView or anything like that!
Mind you, I don't want to sound harsh or negative. All my points made, I still think Amarok is the best music player around (functionality-wise), and I still think the new skin is a great improvement over what we had before.
I like the direction the design is taking. I don't like the lines in background. What's wrong with a solid color? Or maybe two?
My only other complaint is that it's tough to tell by looking at the tabs on the left which one is selected. Highlighting the whole tab like in 1.4 is good. Changing the color of the text requires me to concentrate more. Maybe I can adapt with time.
My only other complaint is that it's tough to tell by looking at the tabs on the left which one is selected. Highlighting the whole tab like in 1.4 is good. Changing the color of the text requires me to concentrate more. Maybe I can adapt with time.
Yep, the tab hilighting thing is basically work in progress. Eventually it's meant to work like you described
Awesome. I guess I have nothing to complain about since everything is getting worked on. You guys rock.
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