Tuesday, August 23. 2005
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I think amaroK playing video, as it is currently designed, is a bad idea. It's a playlist based media player. Videos need windows to display videos in and with amaroK the window would not be integrated into the main one. That just makes for a nasty interface. Strike one.
The other problems like taglib loading are fixable, all it takes is a little code
My main problem with video playback in amaroK will always boil down to two things: 1) How to get the video playback in the main window and 2) how to integrate the playlist into the (main) player window. Maybe people just want a one shot video player but those already exist and do the job well. I honestly can't see the point of having it in amaroK, even in NMM engine which currently does it. It just feels like square-pegging it.
To do it "right" (and many video players do this) the video window and playlist must work together. You should be able to seamlessly go from one to the other. Easily be able to hide the playlist, show the playlist, navigate the playlist all without blocking/obscuring video playback. If you have to click in a whole other window the does not happen so it needs to be in the same (have I said this already
How do we do that in amaroK? A new video tab that resizes the playlist? Ew. A playlist tab gets created when a video is played and the playlist becomes the new video window? Hmm, could work, except that for videos you need to take aspect ratios into account. So if the person wants the original aspect then you have to resize (and they'll of course want amaroK to go back to previous setup once their vid is finished playing and the playlist moves on to a music track). But back to the playlist, that's another beast in itself to get right. It can't be like the current audio playlist because most videos won't have tags. So let's say the Current Tab gets automagically turned into a playlist when videos are played somehow (I mean it's not like there'll be much point in having the context browser then is there... The Cover of your currently playing porno, Suggested smut films, fave films and "albums" around something I'd want while watching my porn... I just wanna see two hot chicks get it on.
Bah. I just think amaroK would need to be fundamentally redesigned in order to be a competent video player. you can turn a video player quite easily into a good audio player, but the reverse does not hold true. Even for an app as excellent at it's current task as amaroK.
I think I've ranted enough. Flame on!
The other problems like taglib loading are fixable, all it takes is a little code
My main problem with video playback in amaroK will always boil down to two things: 1) How to get the video playback in the main window and 2) how to integrate the playlist into the (main) player window. Maybe people just want a one shot video player but those already exist and do the job well. I honestly can't see the point of having it in amaroK, even in NMM engine which currently does it. It just feels like square-pegging it.
To do it "right" (and many video players do this) the video window and playlist must work together. You should be able to seamlessly go from one to the other. Easily be able to hide the playlist, show the playlist, navigate the playlist all without blocking/obscuring video playback. If you have to click in a whole other window the does not happen so it needs to be in the same (have I said this already
How do we do that in amaroK? A new video tab that resizes the playlist? Ew. A playlist tab gets created when a video is played and the playlist becomes the new video window? Hmm, could work, except that for videos you need to take aspect ratios into account. So if the person wants the original aspect then you have to resize (and they'll of course want amaroK to go back to previous setup once their vid is finished playing and the playlist moves on to a music track). But back to the playlist, that's another beast in itself to get right. It can't be like the current audio playlist because most videos won't have tags. So let's say the Current Tab gets automagically turned into a playlist when videos are played somehow (I mean it's not like there'll be much point in having the context browser then is there... The Cover of your currently playing porno, Suggested smut films, fave films and "albums" around something I'd want while watching my porn... I just wanna see two hot chicks get it on.
Bah. I just think amaroK would need to be fundamentally redesigned in order to be a competent video player. you can turn a video player quite easily into a good audio player, but the reverse does not hold true. Even for an app as excellent at it's current task as amaroK.
I think I've ranted enough. Flame on!
amaroK Media Desktop Environment?
Isn't that what Oggb4mp3's liveCD is?
!; )
Isn't that what Oggb4mp3's liveCD is?
!; )
First, make Amarok the perfect, full-featured audio application. Then you could try to expand it to a video player, but developing in 2 separate directions would make progress pretty slow IMHO. But if I still have to use MPlayer for videos, I won't cry.
Please, no video! Make it just the best music player in the world.
I believe i've already spoken on the subject before, but... 
If there is no simple way of implementing the import of video files into the collection, then no it should not happen (i.e. if taglib doesn't support it, don't go there). Of course, this more or less goes without saying since TagLib is what we use, and we even import audio files that doesn't get tags read by TagLib (i.e. m4a/aac, wma, mod, xm, that sort of thing)
But, as for supporting video playback simply. Well, if we eventually do something like the mockup that i made once, which a lot of people seem to like anyway, then why not, if a video stream is detected in the current media, replace the visualisation with that video data? For those that have not seen the mockup in question here's a link: http://amarok.kde.org/index.php?set_albumName=Mockups&id=amarok_vis&option=com_gallery&Itemid=60&include=view_photo.php
The reason for arguing for this approach is more or less to do what Paulo (#4) suggests, make the best music player in the world. Since arguably for music videos (for example), the video stream can be said to be visualisation of the music it accompanies, it would make the most sense to put it there.
If there is no simple way of implementing the import of video files into the collection, then no it should not happen (i.e. if taglib doesn't support it, don't go there). Of course, this more or less goes without saying since TagLib is what we use, and we even import audio files that doesn't get tags read by TagLib (i.e. m4a/aac, wma, mod, xm, that sort of thing)
But, as for supporting video playback simply. Well, if we eventually do something like the mockup that i made once, which a lot of people seem to like anyway, then why not, if a video stream is detected in the current media, replace the visualisation with that video data? For those that have not seen the mockup in question here's a link: http://amarok.kde.org/index.php?set_albumName=Mockups&id=amarok_vis&option=com_gallery&Itemid=60&include=view_photo.php
The reason for arguing for this approach is more or less to do what Paulo (#4) suggests, make the best music player in the world. Since arguably for music videos (for example), the video stream can be said to be visualisation of the music it accompanies, it would make the most sense to put it there.
I would agree with only having music videos and not all video content in Amarok and using the visualisation windows for it would probably be ideal. You can alway not show that window and just listen to the song. I am one of those who have a lot of music videos that I would like to at least listen to in Amarok. Much information isn't needed, I name my files reasonably and keep them in a decent structure, but I would like to see the music videos grouped below their respective artist... Having the info only in the database, linked by filename would be fine by me.
Just a little more food for thought.
Just a little more food for thought.
Sometimes I would just wish people would stop and think about what they are doing. Imho, applications are not supposed to merge together into one massive app, with support for every thinkable thing, so I would never need to run anyother app in my life.
All I'm saying is - keep it simpel. let's say, I never watch videos, but i play alot of music 24/7, then why, please tell me why, do I need a video feature in my music playing app? I have nothing to use it for, it just sits there looking stupid, and taking up space.
What will be the next integrated "smart" feature, a calculator or maybe an image viewer, why not, I always wanted to watch my image gallery while listening to some of my favorite music.
Sepperate music from video
email klient from browser
5xzoom digital camera from mobilphone
etc
I might be conservative, and oppose change. Integrating alot of apps into one, might be the future. But if this is the future, i sure don't want to be a part of it.
All I'm saying is - keep it simpel. let's say, I never watch videos, but i play alot of music 24/7, then why, please tell me why, do I need a video feature in my music playing app? I have nothing to use it for, it just sits there looking stupid, and taking up space.
What will be the next integrated "smart" feature, a calculator or maybe an image viewer, why not, I always wanted to watch my image gallery while listening to some of my favorite music.
Sepperate music from video
email klient from browser
5xzoom digital camera from mobilphone
etc
I might be conservative, and oppose change. Integrating alot of apps into one, might be the future. But if this is the future, i sure don't want to be a part of it.
I'll just quote from my message, you can always read the rest. This is the part that is a reply to your question about why you would want it in a music player
"Since arguably for music videos (for example), the video stream can be said to be visualisation of the music it accompanies, it would make the most sense to put it there."
"Since arguably for music videos (for example), the video stream can be said to be visualisation of the music it accompanies, it would make the most sense to put it there."
I think it's a bad idea to support watching films, tv series, or anything like that inside amarok - it's all about music - which it does VERY well indeed.
However, there is an overlap - music videos. It would be great to have amarok play music videos perhaps as a visualization.
The problems with this are many as other people have already pointed out - most importantly no support for id3 or similar in video files.
Here's my idea, given that the only worthwhile video support is for music videos:
Allow a user to associate a music video to an audio file. This could use the comments tag of the mp3 file to store the path to the video, or probably better: just store the relationship in the amarok database.
Alternatively if a file 'Fatboy Slim - Weapon of choice.mp3' exists, and a video file exists in the same directory with the same name but with a video extention i.e. 'Fatboy Slim - Weapon of choice.avi/mpeg/etc' then assume the relationship automatically.
Once this relationship between an audio file and it's video file is established we could offer the user a choice on whether they want the video to play, or just the .mp3 file.
Most of the time I just play audio files - sometimes (like at a party) I want to mingle videos with audio files. It'd be fantastic to have amarok play the video files where the relationship exists, otherwise play visualizations.
That's my ramble. Apologies if it's not clear - english isn't my first language, machine code is
PS amaroK impresses my windoze friends more than any other application - keep up the good work!
However, there is an overlap - music videos. It would be great to have amarok play music videos perhaps as a visualization.
The problems with this are many as other people have already pointed out - most importantly no support for id3 or similar in video files.
Here's my idea, given that the only worthwhile video support is for music videos:
Allow a user to associate a music video to an audio file. This could use the comments tag of the mp3 file to store the path to the video, or probably better: just store the relationship in the amarok database.
Alternatively if a file 'Fatboy Slim - Weapon of choice.mp3' exists, and a video file exists in the same directory with the same name but with a video extention i.e. 'Fatboy Slim - Weapon of choice.avi/mpeg/etc' then assume the relationship automatically.
Once this relationship between an audio file and it's video file is established we could offer the user a choice on whether they want the video to play, or just the .mp3 file.
Most of the time I just play audio files - sometimes (like at a party) I want to mingle videos with audio files. It'd be fantastic to have amarok play the video files where the relationship exists, otherwise play visualizations.
That's my ramble. Apologies if it's not clear - english isn't my first language, machine code is
PS amaroK impresses my windoze friends more than any other application - keep up the good work!
Its not uncommon to have a music video but not a mp3 of it. You don't really need both, even now since amaroK can play the audio of a video file.
Point taken, but:
I find music video files tend to have poor sound quality, and then there's the problem with having no tag information available from a video file.
I find music video files tend to have poor sound quality, and then there's the problem with having no tag information available from a video file.
I can only agree with most of the previous posts: Keep it simple, as was already stated way back as the prime Unix philosophy.
"Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new features."
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s06.html
"Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new features."
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s06.html
just integrate tabs in the playlist windows...
one tab for playing songs --> playlist
one tab for playing videos --> ehhm...videos
and an option for fullscreen.
or...uhm...ok ok...maybe not...haha!
however, tabbed playlists would be nice!
one tab for playing songs --> playlist
one tab for playing videos --> ehhm...videos
and an option for fullscreen.
or...uhm...ok ok...maybe not...haha!
however, tabbed playlists would be nice!
Make Amarok "just" the best music player of all. I already think that Amarok is it already, but that doesn't matter.
If there's a need for (music) video support so make an option that the user can define a link to a video file. So if there's a music video present for an audio file the user sees a button (or something else) what says "click here to see the video" (better ideas are welcome) and then in a new window you can see the video. I don't think that the window with the video should be integrated into Amarok, for me I see always videos in fullscreen. To open the video you could simply use mplayer.
But I don't need video support in Amarok. So please forget about it.
If there's a need for (music) video support so make an option that the user can define a link to a video file. So if there's a music video present for an audio file the user sees a button (or something else) what says "click here to see the video" (better ideas are welcome
) and then in a new window you can see the video. I don't think that the window with the video should be integrated into Amarok, for me I see always videos in fullscreen. To open the video you could simply use mplayer.But I don't need video support in Amarok. So please forget about it.
Yes, yes, yes! I want amaroK to be a videoplayer!
And please restore posibility to change XINE settings for amaroK 1.3 as it was in 1.2 - otherwise I can't specify path to RealPlayer and WindowsMedia codecs.
Big thanks to all developers!
And please restore posibility to change XINE settings for amaroK 1.3 as it was in 1.2 - otherwise I can't specify path to RealPlayer and WindowsMedia codecs.
Big thanks to all developers!
Hm,
I like when I play music to have a full featured audio player (with media library, crossfade, visualisations, etc) and amarok does that great.
When I watch videos I like a full featured video player with support for subtitles, surround sound options, dvd navigation etc. (and there are players doing that great)
Besides the fact that most attempts to merge the two failed miserably IMO (just see how slow can winamp5 be on a 1,8Ghz machine) merging the two would result in a medium featured application for both. It won't be either full featured music player nor full featured video player.
And let's not forget the fact that video will increase the requirements for amarok (both as support libraries and memory/cpu) I don't like giving up 20% cpu just because I like to hear music as I work. And I don't like downloading tons of libs just to compile an mp3 player...
Let amarok evolve to the best music player, not to one of the many bloated media players that are to slow to load for listening a few songs and missing important features when you want to watch a movie...
As a conclusion the day amarok includes video support is the day I'll stop using it.
I like when I play music to have a full featured audio player (with media library, crossfade, visualisations, etc) and amarok does that great.
When I watch videos I like a full featured video player with support for subtitles, surround sound options, dvd navigation etc. (and there are players doing that great)
Besides the fact that most attempts to merge the two failed miserably IMO (just see how slow can winamp5 be on a 1,8Ghz machine) merging the two would result in a medium featured application for both. It won't be either full featured music player nor full featured video player.
And let's not forget the fact that video will increase the requirements for amarok (both as support libraries and memory/cpu) I don't like giving up 20% cpu just because I like to hear music as I work. And I don't like downloading tons of libs just to compile an mp3 player...
Let amarok evolve to the best music player, not to one of the many bloated media players that are to slow to load for listening a few songs and missing important features when you want to watch a movie...
As a conclusion the day amarok includes video support is the day I'll stop using it.
"And let's not forget the fact that video will increase the requirements for amarok (both as support libraries and memory/cpu) I don't like giving up 20% cpu just because I like to hear music as I work. And I don't like downloading tons of libs just to compile an mp3 player..."
Sorry, that's nonsense. The backends we use (xine, gst..) deliver video support for free.
Sorry, that's nonsense. The backends we use (xine, gst..) deliver video support for free.
i would really love to see full video support in amarok, it would be perfect. but only if it can be done right and not affect the quality of amarok as a music player. i like amarok as it is right now too much , it's the only player i can allow in my tray and not worry too often about it, and it would be handy just to use the same player for video as well, i think it's not a bad idea for one program to handle all media needs, in addetion there's a great potential for amarok to greatly enhance the video experience just as it did with music, one thing i can think of right now is for people who watch too many series, having them in playlists amarok style with rating and stuff would be neat, i for one am a big anime fan with some 60+ series and i have to keep track of the positions in the current series i'm watching somewhere outside the player which is lame, with amarok i would just know from the play count. other things might be the ability to fetch lyrics, getting info via wikipedia, etc... hope you guys will give it more thought.
I mostly agree with the general "no" sentiment, but I don't think it would be terrible to pop open a minimalistic video window if someone tries to open a .mpeg file.
As for the collection integration: don't. Have an entirely different collection for video. I wouldn't want "50 Random Tracks" to pick a home movie when I want it to play music anyway.
About the no id3 tags: allow users to add their own info, just keep it in a separate db.
So if video is added, it should be simple, and not interfere with my music at all.
As for the collection integration: don't. Have an entirely different collection for video. I wouldn't want "50 Random Tracks" to pick a home movie when I want it to play music anyway.
About the no id3 tags: allow users to add their own info, just keep it in a separate db.
So if video is added, it should be simple, and not interfere with my music at all.
If such changes were to be made - I think it would be best for them to be seperate projects. Extensions like firefox uses. This way the core application could focus on being the best music player. But those who feel it really needs CDBurning, Video Playing etc functionality could use the extensions. I am not sure how many changes would need to accomedate this but surely the kpart technology would go a long way towards this.
Sorry to dig this up.
I'll make an argument for adding video support.
I, like many people, handle 100% of my audio and video through my PC. I don't have a standalone CD or DVD player. As we all know, the vast majority of modern households will lose these things in the coming years/decades. There are many nights where I sit back and want to listen to music or watch a video. And it's not uncommon for me to rapidly switch between the two within one interface. And I love to sit back with a remote and handle this from my couch. How am I doing all this? I'm using using Windows Media Center. And I'm using it because, at present, what I'm describing is not possible within a linux distro (yes, it could be done with a whole shitload of headache, but even then, it wouldn't be nearly as good). I know I'm not alone here. There is huge demand. In the coming years, Windows and Apple will make a killing with Media Center and Front Row. There is also demand in the Linux community. And if it isn't all that loud at the moment, it will be soon....
Amarok is (obviously) the best open source audio player ever. No question. I think that if the same level of innovation and dedication were geared towards making a version that included video support, it would make a lot of people very happy. I think Amarok should make video a goal. You may not agree with me, but there really are many people who have stayed away from linux because they do want an all around outstanding media player. The team who finally makes one will do a lot of good for open source.
I don't see the tagging and file browsing issues as huge problems.
As for the large number of people who want to hang onto some ideal which states we need 100 apps to handle 100 different things, I really don't get them. Integration is a beautiful thing. Don't be scared... I suppose maybe if you truly only listen to music, I could see the point. But how does video integration, done right, interfere with music?
Maybe two separate versions could be developed. One just for music. One for both.
I'll make an argument for adding video support.
I, like many people, handle 100% of my audio and video through my PC. I don't have a standalone CD or DVD player. As we all know, the vast majority of modern households will lose these things in the coming years/decades. There are many nights where I sit back and want to listen to music or watch a video. And it's not uncommon for me to rapidly switch between the two within one interface. And I love to sit back with a remote and handle this from my couch. How am I doing all this? I'm using using Windows Media Center. And I'm using it because, at present, what I'm describing is not possible within a linux distro (yes, it could be done with a whole shitload of headache, but even then, it wouldn't be nearly as good). I know I'm not alone here. There is huge demand. In the coming years, Windows and Apple will make a killing with Media Center and Front Row. There is also demand in the Linux community. And if it isn't all that loud at the moment, it will be soon....
Amarok is (obviously) the best open source audio player ever. No question. I think that if the same level of innovation and dedication were geared towards making a version that included video support, it would make a lot of people very happy. I think Amarok should make video a goal. You may not agree with me, but there really are many people who have stayed away from linux because they do want an all around outstanding media player. The team who finally makes one will do a lot of good for open source.
I don't see the tagging and file browsing issues as huge problems.
As for the large number of people who want to hang onto some ideal which states we need 100 apps to handle 100 different things, I really don't get them. Integration is a beautiful thing. Don't be scared... I suppose maybe if you truly only listen to music, I could see the point. But how does video integration, done right, interfere with music?
Maybe two separate versions could be developed. One just for music. One for both.
how about playing atleast the sound content of the video? I mean like mplayer -vo null file.mpeg
I have some very important songs with videos, with amarok I can't altogether play them. I do understand opening a video window etc might be bad, but only playing sound of video should not creat any problem, except for the indexing thing.
BTW AmaroK rocks! It is plainly the best player I ever used!
I have some very important songs with videos, with amarok I can't altogether play them. I do understand opening a video window etc might be bad, but only playing sound of video should not creat any problem, except for the indexing thing.
BTW AmaroK rocks! It is plainly the best player I ever used!
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