Saturday, December 8. 2007Why Windows won't hurt (and may even help) Amarok
The views in this post are mine and are not necessarily those of the entire Amarok development team.
I suppose I should introduce myself, rather than just jumping in like I did with my first post about Amarok on Windows. I'm Shane, I live in Brisbane and during the day I write engineering/scientific software in c#. Since that obviously means using Windows, and I like to listen to music while I work, that currently means no Amarok for me for most of my music listening. So the reasons why I'm working on getting Amarok on Windows should be pretty obvious:
Anyway, onto the objections about Amarok on Windows. I thought I'd address the common ones I've heard here, so we can keep any flamewars in one post. "There will be an influx of Winblows n00bs using Amarok" Good for Amarok! If the find platform specific bugs, that's my problem to worry about (the other devs aren't going to waste their time fixing things on a platform they don't use). If they find general bugs or suggest new features, then that's helpful for everyone. And if it means Amarok gets more interest from people who want to help out because it runs on Windows, then that means more and better features for all platforms. I see a wider audience as something to hope for, not fear. "I don't want open source programs on non-open source operating systems." The beauty of open source is that people can do things that people didn't originally intend. The drawback is that people can do things that people didn't originally intend. It's a double edged sword, and every change always ends up leaving some people unhappy. However, I think this has the potential to make more people happy than unhappy. "I don't want the Linux version to get left behind." Honestly, at the moment it's just one guy (ie me) working on Windows vs all the other devs working on the Linux version. Even getting the Windows version to the point where it does everything the Linux version can will be a great achievement (for example, I don't have an iPod so iPod support will have to wait until someone else helps out). There's no way the Windows version will ever become the focus. I'd rather spend my time adding useful features than writing platform specific code. "If Amarok runs on Windows nobody will switch to Linux for it" For the last decade or so people have been declaring it to be the year of the Linux desktop. The end result is (depending on who you ask) somewhere between 0.5% and 2% market share. This is despite the fact in that time we've gone from Slackware and fvwm being state of the art, to distros like Ubuntu which are easier to install than Windows, and both GNOME and KDE being wonderful desktop environments. To put it bluntly: people already aren't switching to Linux. I'm not saying the fear is unreasonable. It gets the facts right but comes to the wrong conclusion. Apps are what really matter now: a decade ago, when Windows 95 crashed daily, and Mac OS didn't even have pre-emptive multi-tasking, Linux as an OS was light-years ahead technically and switching for the OS might have made sense. The field is a lot more equal now, and it's the apps that largely set things apart. The problem is, most of the apps people want (or need) to run are on Windows. And switching all your apps at once with a switch of operating system isn't something most people are going to want to do. However, switching one app, say Winamp for Amarok, is something that people will consider. So one app here, one app there, and perhaps down the track everyone runs all cross-platform apps. If that's the case, suddenly switching OS doesn't seem so impossible. Sure, it's far-fetched, but I don't think it's nearly as far-fetched as the idea people will switch OS for a media player. If you're a Linux fan, look at Amarok on Windows as building a bridge towards a future switch. Trackbacks
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The points you make are all valid. There is no reason to resent a Windows port. I use Linux as the only OS on my main computer as a majority of current users probably do. However, I know that a great many of us are also forced to use Windows in environments such as school or work. This will be a great benefit to us.
It will also be a testament to open source software. We constantly are producing high quality, cross platform products (think Firefox, KDE4). If users can migrate to these, it will as you say make the underlying OS change less drastic.
i agree.
if amarok could make a user change his/her operating system think about adobe photoshop (the one tool that makes me install virtual machines all over the place). ports of high quality f/oss products will help spread the word, show something from the bright side of life.
I have to agree with all of those points, and would add another: most future GNU/Linux users are likely using Windows now, and the way to attract them is not with hostility. Most of them don't even know what open source software is, but one free high quality application, like Amarok, could inspire curiosity concerning the philosophy and advantages of open source development. I first learned about F/OSS from Audacity. That application convinced me to replace all my worthless Windows apps (and finally my OS) with Free alternatives. On the other hand, I didn't even realize Firefox was open source for a long time (Mozilla doesn't emphasize that point on their download page). Finally there is the example of Konqueror. No matter your opinion of KHTML, the biggest reason for its rendering problems is that few people use it, and therefore nobody bothers to check their pages for compatibility. While a media player is a bit different, an expanded user base for Amarok won't hurt Linux.
Oh please, please, please let there be Amarok on Windows (and Mac as well). Personally it's my number 1 feature I am looking out for in Amarok 2. I agree that the idealistic "goals" of making people switch to Linux and FOSS alternatives will be served to some degree, but amarok would fill a hole that both OSes really lack, an excellent music player that plays almost any format without "political" hindrances (ogg/flac on Mac/Windows, wma on Mac etc).
Note that Amarok on Windows is currently using DirectSound, so it only plays what Windows Media Player plays.
Hopefully in the future we could have a VideoLAN Phonon backend and have one open source backend for all three platforms.
The current backend is really only intended for testing purposes anyway until something better comes along. I don't want to become the maintainer of an audio backend, I'd rather work on more useful stuff.
But to clarify, WMP can play whatever formats you have codecs for (and just about every format ever written has a DirectShow codec, simply because that's the standard way to make them playable on windows). If anything the number of formats supported with DirectShow codecs is higher than what we'd get from videolan. On the other hand, you at least know what you get from videolan, DirectShow codecs can be of mixed quality. I don't think either option is a clear win over the other at this point.
I am glad you decided to push the port forward even if certain people feel like this might turn out to be a bad idea. I am (almost) solely using Linux myself but I think some abstraction (portability) in the code might actually do some good for the overall quality as well.
this is great news.
i'm myself a 100% GNU/Linux and even FreeBSD user, i love Amarok and would be proud to recommend a Windows port to Windows users.
I'm currently in the same situation. I am working in C#, but I still want to contribute to open source in my free time. Add to that, the horrible nature of windows media players and I would very much like to help out.
Shoot me an email and let me know if there's any way to contribute.
I also work at a company where you either work on Windows machines or work at a different company. However, at home I prefer to use Linux. I would absolutely love to have Amarok for Windows, as I've come to prefer it over all the music player software I've tried in any OS. I understand some of the arguments that are usually voiced ("now nobody will have a reason to switch to Linux", anybody?). It just doesn't make sense to withhold Amarok from Windows users. Like it or not, Windows has a vast majority of the market share. Offering Windows users another alternative that they can also run if they choose to try Linux can only do good. IMO, the biggest reason Windows users don't switch to Linux right now is because they don't know the names of the applications and get confused, wanting to return to their familiar (if inferior) Windows setup. For example, if you wanted to edit a digital photo and didn't know better, why on earth would you use a program named Gimp? If a typical windows user could find the exact same applications that they're used to on a Linux distribution, they'd be more likely to switch, not more likely to stick with Windows. Software application name titles carry a lot of power, so much so that the name of the applications becomes synonymous with what they do. I say, let's get people so used to Amarok everywhere that it becomes synonymous to listening to digital music files on your computer! "Yeah, I was Amarok-ing out the other night and had this really great idea..."
"[...] I write engineering/scientific software in c#. Since that obviously means using Windows [...]"
You are familiar, I hope, with the Mono project - mono-project.com?
I'm familiar with mono. I think it's an important project, but it's not really suitable for what I do at my day job. It doesn't implement everything we use (not really their fault, we're bleeding edge and have been using c# 3.5 since vs 2008 was beta). Besides, 100% of our user base uses Windows, so there's absolutely zero benefit in mono for us.
I started using KDE by mistake and immediately fell in love with Amarok, so there are some people out there who have switched to Linux because of it. But I still use Windows a lot and I would prefer using Amarok to any other media player.
Two thumbs up for Amarok on Windows!
As a loyal Amarok fan for years I would love to take my favorite player with me when I'm working on windows. I am one of those people, mentioned above, that have to use windows @ work.
And I really miss Amarok! Nothing comes close in my opinion.
I have a number of applications that I can only use in Windows. Every time I use Windows I end up missing Amarok.
The reason I started using linux is because my Win install self-borked, and I'd just tried out Knoppix. Otherwise I wouldn't have touched it. Introducing such an amazing program is probably the best path to conversion.
I'm a windows user who reluctantly uses winamp and can't wait for an amarok port (how long is it going to be btw?)
I've tried every windows player around (wmp, itunes, musikcube, songbird, foobar, winamp, etc) and find them all deficient one way or another, and I think amarok will solve my media player woes. Keep up the good work.
"how long is it going to be btw?"
Hard to say, because it depends on a number of things being finished on Amarok and KDE for windows. Amarok doesn't have a release date set, but the aim is to get an alpha out there sometime after KDE 4 is released, and take it from there. I would hope the Windows release wouldn't be too long after the Linux release (possibly the same time depending on how the beta process goes). We don't want to rush this, there's no point putting buggy software out there, because it doesn't help the users and just makes Amarok and KDE look bad. It's better to have to wait a bit longer and end up with a high quality release.
Count me in. I don't care if the Windows builds start being released as "sooper-über-OMFG-it's-gonna-crash pre-alpha release". If the collection browser is the only thing that remotely works, consider me a willing guinea pig. If the build comes with the instructions to hover the cursor over the main window at my own *risk*, consider me a willing guinea pig!
When Amarok for unix starts with alpha test releases we'll look at doing it for Windows too.
I switched to linux because of Amarok. It's one of the coolest things you can show people, and honestly say: only on linux. For now.
Amarok is a fantastic media player. I use it on all my machines at work. I still have use Windows machines at home for a variety of reasons (powerpoint on my laptop, some games at homes, etc.) and I would LOVE a port.
Love Amarok, love my nix machine but often have to boot in windows to check other browsers / for the flash IDE etc, keeping Amarok... That basically made my christmas. Happy holidays and nice work
I am one of those who switched to linux partly because of Amarok (it's my officially favorite program) and though I don't use windows anymore I think it's a great idea to have a windows version... I've had all my friends promise to try it out when the windows version arrive!!!!
Few points:
-There are some people who choose media players on the basis of cross-platform(ness?). In other words, only players that are available to linux, windows, maybe mac also. -Maybe there should be banner like: "To fully experience Amarok, try it on Linux" or something like that. I use linux also 95% the time, but there are occasions where i have to use Windows. Then it would be nice to be able to use Amarok.
The hope is that we will get to the point where you will get the full Amarok experience on all platforms.
Great news for linux, the same way the firefox adoption can make you realised
"hey i dont need windows" amarok + firefox + pidgin covers most of a teenagers computer usage, all crossplatform, means the next time something breaks in vista its bye bye windows now if only we could make pidgin/kopete own msn ( i mean physic mode is cool and 100 nudges per minute, but we need a killer, "in your face were using msn 11 and were doing it better than you bill :P" touch) sorry i digress basically im saying that just as firefox being better than IE on windows led me to switch. amarok + vlc being better than wmp will do the same for others
although all your points are valid, i just want to say: i switched to linux for amarok.
of course i was 14 then and didnt really need my computer for much more than amarok and firefox... |
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